Speaking on February 14th at the Australian Senate Estimates for the Department of Foreign Affairs, Defense, and Trade, Marc Innes-Brown, Assistant Secretary at Australia’s Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade, misleads the Senate with a series of false assertions about UN Watch while being questioned by Senator Nita Green. Contrary to what he told the Senate, numerous of the leaders and members of the UNRWA Gaza Telegram chat group were employees of UNRWA. See: https://unwatch.org/unrwa-terrorgram/
Innes-Brown also created a straw man by falsely implying that UN Watch’s report was “promoted with a picture” of 3,000 people dancing in the street. UN Watch never used any such photo. Yet he concludes his harangue by saying, “so there’s kind of sometimes kernels of truth in these claims, but there’s often the multiples of people involved. There’s often a degree of exaggeration.” In fact, we made no such claim, and there was therefore no “exaggeration.”
Senator Nita Green: Hello, thank you, chair. I have some questions about UNRWA. Perhaps it’s helpful to start with the basics, if I can. What exactly is UNRWA?
Marc Innes-Brown: So thanks, Senator. UNRWA is a UN body that was established by the UN General Assembly and it’s specifically mandated to provide relief and social services to Palestinian refugees.
Senator Nita Green: What makes UNRWA different? What are the other UN bodies with the mandate to provide basic services to Palestinian refugees?
Marc Innes-Brown: UNRWA was specifically set up to provide those relief and social services. That was a dedicated body to provide to Palestinians.
Senator Nita Green: How long has the Australian government funded UNRWA?
Marc Innes-Brown: Since 1951.
Senator Nita Green: And in relation to their work in Gaza, we know that Gaza is controlled by the terrorist group Hamas. So I just want to go through some history. When did Hamas take over Gaza?
Marc Innes-Brown: They took over Gaza completely in 2007.
Senator Nita Green: And since then, governments of both persuasions have continued to fund UNRWA. How exactly does the Australian Government provide funding? Presumably, we don’t deal with Hamas. How do we provide that funding, since 2007?
Marc Innes-Brown: So we provide an annual contribution to UNRWA, and UNRWA uses that money to provide health and education services and other relief services, not only in Gaza, but also in the West Bank and also in Syria, Jordan, and Lebanon. So they have five areas of operation.
Senator Nita Green: Is there a framework agreement that funding is provided under?
Marc Innes-Brown: Yes, there are strategic partnership agreements. That there is. We’ve had several of these over the years, at least that I’m familiar with. And that sort of sets out – they’re a multi-year agreement– it sets out how we’re going to provide the funding and also requires UNRWA to meet various conditions.
Senator Nita Green: And you said there’s been several agreements. When was the strategic framework agreement with UNRWA first designed and agreed to?
Marc Innes-Brown: Well, the most recent one that was operational was in 2016, but there have been earlier ones as I understand it, but I’d have to take on notice all the details.
Senator Nita Green: That’s fine, the current agreement.
Marc Innes-Brown: Yeah, that’s right. It was extended. So the current agreement, the initial agreement went from 2016 to 2020, and then it was extended. It’s been extended three times and it went to the end of 2023, Senator.
Senator Nita Green: Thank you. What laws does Australia have to ensure that this funding doesn’t flow to a terrorist regime like Hamas? Does DFAT (Department of Foreign Affairs and Trade) have its own controls to ensure?
Marc Innes-Brown: Sure. I mean, there are general laws which, in terms of our criminal code and also sanctions in domestic legislation. DFAT also has its own controls. As I said, the partnership agreement sets out requirements in relation to counterterrorism, anti-fraud, anti-corruption. We also have processes where we evaluate UNRWA’s compliance with those requirements, and so on. So we take a close interest in these issues and we have appropriate frameworks and controls in place.
Senator Nita Green: Is UNRWA, from what you understand, is UNRWA transparent with Israel about its personnel? Do they provide lists?
Marc Innes-Brown: UNRWA says it provides lists to Israel annually, Senator, of all its employees.
Senator Nita Green: You will be aware of a letter sent by members of the Australian community that raised concerns about UNRWA’s activities. Were the sorts of allegations raised in the letter new?
Marc Innes-Brown: Over time, from time to time, Senator, there have been allegations about members of UNRWA staff. When these things do happen, we take them up vigorously with UNRWA and UNRWA has undertaken to have zero tolerance on these sorts of things and they also investigate them.
So in relation to the allegations late last year to which that letter referred. In one case, there was the case of someone allegedly holding people hostage in their house. UNRWA raised that, sought additional information from the journalist that provided that report. The information wasn’t ever provided.
Senator Nita Green: Can I just ask, you’ve skipped over a key piece of information and, these allegations, I understand advocacy groups have a role in raising those allegations, I just want to make that clear. But how long have these types of allegations been raised by advocacy groups about UNRWA?
Marc Innes-Brown: Off and on for years, Senator. In my experience working on Middle East issues, I can remember back to 2012, there were some allegations.
Senator Nita Green: I’m about to ask you some questions about those allegations, or essentially what action has been taken. What action has Australia taken to address these concerns and when was this done?
Marc Innes-Brown: So pertaining to the letter that you mentioned. First of all, look, you know, these allegations are serious and they need to be investigated. So we do try and unpack them. We do take it up with UNRWA.
We have done so through, initially with those allegations, through our representative office in Ramallah. And in those cases, I did explain one example, which we also took up, some of those allegations with Assistant Foreign Minister Watts’ office in December and later during the Foreign Minister’s visit.
So those things we have pursued with UNRWA. We’ve had a range of meetings with them about actions that they’ve taken in relation to them, and so on. So we are confident, I mean, UNRWA takes these issues seriously because they know they are matters of public interest and they know that there’s, you know, frankly, there are groups that are focusing on these issues and are seeking to attack UNRWA at every corner, at every turn.
Senator Nita Green: Can I ask about those groups? You refer to advocacy groups, or perhaps I use the term organizations, that compile these reports and make these types of allegations, since as far back as, you say, 2012.
Marc Innes-Brown: And probably long before, Senator, but that’s as far as my memory stretches back.
Senator Nita Green: And we understand there are reasons people do that. But what do we know about these organizations? I know, if you can speak in general terms, what sort of organizations are we talking about?
Marc Innes-Brown: Well, I think, I want to make very clear that everyone that expresses a concern about some UNRWA activities is not in this category, but there are some, and there are, as I said, there have been serious allegations and misbehavior that have been pursued and appropriately dealt with, and should have been dealt with. But generally speaking, I think it’s generally known that there are at least several organizations that, their agenda is to focus on misconduct by UNRWA, and unfortunately, often these reports can contain a significant amount of exaggeration and so on.
So, I mean, the agenda is, and this is well known, the agenda is for UNRWA to be disbanded. UNRWA is the organization that protects Palestinian refugees, that provides support.
Senator Nita Green: Thank you, Mr. Innes-Brown. In saying that, the most recent allegations, I understand the nature of them are very serious. And I understand some of those allegations were made by the Israeli government, which go to the alleged activities of UNRWA staff. I’m now referencing just these allegations, not the history. The most recent allegations that were referred to in the letter we were discussing earlier.
What actions have we seen from the UN to address some of these concerns?
Marc Innes-Brown: Sure, so in relation, there were two reports, I think in November, containing concerns about UNRWA staff and social media activity and celebrating the dreadful events of 7 October. So the UN has set up a, UNRWA has set up a very senior investigative group internally and investigated those allegations. A couple of people, they’ve advised us, a couple of people, two people I think, were terminated. A number of people, around 10 I think, they were conducting further investigations into and there were three people that there was no evidence about.
So I think the initial report said that there were 30-odd people involved, but when UNRWA checked into it, they could only find that only about less than half of them actually were UNRWA employees. And this is the character of some of these reports. Some of the people that are involved in some of the alleged acts are UNRWA employees, but often significant numbers of people are not. And so it sort of gets all a bit blurred.
Senator Nita Green: And is that what you were referring to earlier, Mr. Innis-Brown, that some of the allegations, or that some of the organizations that are making these allegations do, from what you’ve seen, have an agenda?
Marc Innes-Brown: Well that’s right. I mean, there’s another recent report. So when these things come up, we obviously take them very seriously and we look into them. And so there was a report recently that there were 3,000 UNRWA teachers that had a telegram channel that were celebrating.
So, you know, we had a look at that report. It’s obviously a pretty serious allegation and I’m not sure where the 3,000 came from, but the channel wasn’t set up by UNRWA, it was people seeking work with UNRWA, and the report itself only documents this sort of information about 30 people, not 3,000 and so on.
And the report was being promoted with a picture of, supposedly, the 3,000 people dancing in the streets about what happened on the 7th of October. So if you have a close look at the picture, our office in Ramallah had a good look at it. The picture was taken before the 7th of October. It was actually people protesting outside UNRWA headquarters about getting some money for compensation for the 2014 conflict. So there’s kind of, sometimes, kernels of truth in these claims, but there’s often, the multiples of people involved, there’s often a degree of exaggeration, Senator.
